tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post6672974219304969670..comments2024-03-27T16:06:20.993-07:00Comments on GA PA Great Northern War Gaming & Other Projects: Black Powder with Russians AARRogerChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-28387908864356554222019-02-15T02:01:51.643-08:002019-02-15T02:01:51.643-08:00Thanks David, our raft of amends are not a "d...Thanks David, our raft of amends are not a "done deal" yet but I want to play as is before we make any more changes. Latest amend has been that Russians having one fifth pike and smaller units have 2 firing dice but a re-roll on one miss, however they only get to charge a unit if it is disoredered or shaken before firing as the order sequence has declare charges before firing. That prety much fixed it.<br />RogerChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-32242445491869329782019-02-14T17:40:03.093-08:002019-02-14T17:40:03.093-08:00What a game! Enjoyed those photos. Hope the Swedes...What a game! Enjoyed those photos. Hope the Swedes fair better next time. Seems to me their problem with closing could be fixed by returning the shooting to after movement though. Looking forward to the next battle.David Cookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17148983897942472092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-29704569880542736032018-11-28T15:56:20.752-08:002018-11-28T15:56:20.752-08:00Good points Rittmeister and something to bear in m...Good points Rittmeister and something to bear in mind that we can tweak how good troops were depending on the timeline amongst other things. The Saxons would surely have got worse over the war as they were defeated again and again and had to fill the ranks with less experienced troops, in the same way as the Russians got better the more action they saw.If the Russians at Poltava were not the same as Narva the Swedes were also not the same after a winter in Russia and poor powder for their muskets.RogerChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-16841859004577585582018-11-28T13:31:47.803-08:002018-11-28T13:31:47.803-08:00Lovely game and great Rules explorations! I think ...Lovely game and great Rules explorations! I think the rules work great. Some tweaks may be needed to make them "historical" but maybe now that you know some of the factors it's good to start thinking of another factor so important in the GNW (and any campaign) - time. How do the units evolve over time. The Russians at Narva were not the same animal as the ones at Poltava. Between the one and the other the Russians learned to fight battles in their style, and once you find you winning style it's hard to change it. So maybe firing and charging wasn't one of their styles, or should only be able to be done when you have a certain command level. ie at a lower command level, trying to dice for charging might when failed, incur penalties that make you not want to risk it (ie risk of charging disordered or something like this)<br />the same with the Winged Hussars. That they were at one time unstoppable is quite historical, but during the GNW they were badly let and didn't have their heart in it, so they were more or less useless. (although reading the Polish version of the Battle of Klissow it says something like" Polish hussars easily smashed the Swedish cavalry. However, she failed to destroy the enemy's infantry. To achieve this, the hetman should support the attackers with the rest of the Polish banners; instead, he ordered the withdrawal of the Polish banners from the fight, which was his personal revenge against king August II." <br />I guess the fun of it trying to figure how the factors can be modified during the duration of a campaign :)Rittmeister Krefeldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08719217203144766798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-27439782101402844282018-11-28T10:06:55.700-08:002018-11-28T10:06:55.700-08:00Cheers Truls, I wasnt entiely happy with the unit ...Cheers Truls, I wasnt entiely happy with the unit stats for the game in the first place and it has given me plenty to consider for our next smaller game tomorrow.RogerChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-77264991698564667982018-11-28T07:01:37.128-08:002018-11-28T07:01:37.128-08:00Great looking game, looks amazing.
I'm not goi...Great looking game, looks amazing.<br />I'm not going to bad mouth BP, my opinions on the rules have been stated before.<br />And know you have good reasons to use the rules.<br /><br />It's hard to Balance, during the GNW the polish hussars were useless, but it's boring having units that are only there to fail...<br /><br />But I agree with lowering the effect of allied musketry. <br />Saxon and russian musketeers should not have very effective musketry.<br />But let saxon and russian grenadiers/guards have regular effective musketry.<br />This also makes these elite units more effective with out giving them various moral or mele advantages.Gunfreakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04079955895580491444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-75086048956218277472018-11-23T03:01:24.099-08:002018-11-23T03:01:24.099-08:00Thanks very much Stephen, some great ideas here, m...Thanks very much Stephen, some great ideas here, many we are already considering. Its the first game so far where we made the Swedes the same command level. It is somethign I wil only do in future when the numbers on both sides are closer. Somethign for battles in the Baltic where arguably the Swedes were not quite as good (best generals and guard troops all in Poland or Russia) but the Russians conversely had some of their better troops and generals. Steady and Elite we will probably use as suggested. tempted to give Russians only two firing dice but a re-roll of one miss as per Jasons suggestion, lets see though, most of our games so far have been Saxons and Danes, the next oen probably will be too as Dave has the Russians and he is a bit further away from the rest of us. I also like the idea of the un-controlled charge for the Swedes, so they charge the enemy even when you might not want them to. I also thought having wavering for some of the Russian troops (but certainly not all) might help.RogerChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-34417185155615874012018-11-22T11:55:12.299-08:002018-11-22T11:55:12.299-08:00What a superb looking game.
You can rightly take p...What a superb looking game.<br />You can rightly take pride in the acclaim you're gathering in these comments.<br /><br />Regarding balancing the battles - and assuming you want fairly super Swedes against ordinary or worse allies I've a few suggestions.<br /><br />Command: Better commanders for the Swedes or bigger brigades for the allies (Bigger brigades overload the commander, reduce tactical flexibility and reflect army control problems). Tweaking command with one or both of these methods helps the Swedes maintain intiiative in battle.<br /><br />Some of Black Powder's "Special Rules" - You've used Ferocious Charge.<br />Other "buffs" include Elite (Die roll to overcome disorder), First fire (1 extra die with the first volley), Steady (Pass first break test), Superbly Drilled (Free move on failed command), Tough Fighters (Re roll a combat miss).<br /><br />Suitable "nerfs" might include Poor Shooters (Must re-roll one shooting hit), Unreliable (Don't move on an equal command roll).<br /><br />You might also consider some of the special rules for generals which reflect impetuous, indecisive or timid characteristics.SteveHolmes11https://www.blogger.com/profile/17392212343858957364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-78591562214777143642018-11-21T10:49:21.566-08:002018-11-21T10:49:21.566-08:00Cheers Jason, when we play next week I may use you...Cheers Jason, when we play next week I may use your stats although I dont have any Russians as it happens. We always give the Swedes higher commands this was a one off that we are only likely to repeat if the volume of troops is closer together. I have shared your sheets with the guys I game with for discussion and we are playing a smaller game next week some time.RogerChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-53409252702721147152018-11-21T08:43:05.848-08:002018-11-21T08:43:05.848-08:00You've seen my stats and take on gnw with the ...You've seen my stats and take on gnw with the pdf I uploaded on lead adventure Roger. They do balance the armies I've found.<br /><br />Also, using BP the swedes have to be elite to remove disorder, or they unrealistically bog down.<br /><br />Plus they have to have higher command, I always make their brigades nines and higher command tens. Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02485192916658609383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-56261366428187052792018-11-21T08:20:44.845-08:002018-11-21T08:20:44.845-08:00Well put Paul. The good news is that we can adjust...Well put Paul. The good news is that we can adjust stats as we feel is right and no need to worry that the rules say x or y. For instance there are a set of stats on a blog form a chap on the Lead Adventure forum which look really interesting. As we did he gives Swedes 2 dice in firing due to the third of troops being Pike. He then does the same for Russians even though they have far less pike, this covers the unit beign smaller, he compensites partially by allowing them to re-roll a miss. An interetsing thoughI think. It also allows us to make Saxons slightly better with three firing dice and Danish Guard better still with either a first fire dice or re-roll for the use of platoon fire. I think the tool kit is there its finding the balance when applying it.<br /> I agree with ignorign the dis-order stopping them chargign, though including it as a modifier in the actual combat works too.RogerChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-12557675670585360752018-11-21T08:16:17.239-08:002018-11-21T08:16:17.239-08:00Thanks Aleksey great to get them all on table.Thanks Aleksey great to get them all on table.RogerChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-80470185232758043582018-11-21T08:05:10.455-08:002018-11-21T08:05:10.455-08:00Hi Roger,
As I envy such game! Real XVIII century....Hi Roger,<br />As I envy such game! Real XVIII century. Also very bright show is a lot of troops. And defeat is an experience.<br />My congratulations!<br />Алексей Ковшиковhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02545784867874379295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-57711893766121350482018-11-21T07:25:48.312-08:002018-11-21T07:25:48.312-08:00Interesting thoughts Roger - and a terrific lookin...Interesting thoughts Roger - and a terrific looking game. A couple of thoughts - in our rules we allow Swedes to ignore the first level of disorder (which normally prevent a unit advancing towards the enemy unless led by a General). Exactly the same rationale as you have since without such a compromise the Swedish advance stalls in the face of enemy musketry. Secondly, historically weren't Russian battalions smaller than the Swedes? Yes there were more of them but in being smaller they are more fragile individually (of course you could argue that attrition on the Swedes over the course of a campaign reduced them to a similar level so it makes little difference) - BP has units of the same size throughout with large or small battalions only counting if of a certain size.marinergrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01393687295535460527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-28582252443398396902018-11-21T07:10:45.985-08:002018-11-21T07:10:45.985-08:00Thanks very much Neil.Thanks very much Neil.RogerChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-11336344898991067112018-11-21T07:10:34.667-08:002018-11-21T07:10:34.667-08:00Cheers Si, hope to catch up with you soon.Cheers Si, hope to catch up with you soon.RogerChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-25631979520887596292018-11-21T07:10:09.557-08:002018-11-21T07:10:09.557-08:00Haha exactly John, you are so right, I dont unders...Haha exactly John, you are so right, I dont understand why everyone else doesnt get it!!! Cheers.RogerChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00937336280188379808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-22074742698921487742018-11-21T06:47:03.838-08:002018-11-21T06:47:03.838-08:00Spectacular looking gameSpectacular looking gameNeil Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05796937765907984193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-23488318749508261202018-11-21T05:28:26.165-08:002018-11-21T05:28:26.165-08:00Looks great pal and a great report. SiLooks great pal and a great report. SiAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05905814840050494437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2361414585205649371.post-66053733079563264732018-11-21T04:26:35.616-08:002018-11-21T04:26:35.616-08:00Fantastic AAR and wonderful looking game- absolute...Fantastic AAR and wonderful looking game- absolutely inspirational! I've use Black Powder a few times but they are not my 'go to' rules for GNW- I don't get the right 'feel'. ...and yes...when the Swedes loose- it's not the troops, it's not the general- or the dice.....<br /> it's ALWAYS the rules Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12778030858712526137noreply@blogger.com